Amazon.com: Customer reviews: Young Men and Fire: Twenty-fifth Anniversary Edition

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"Young Men and Fire" is THE BEST book I've ever read.

Reviewed in the United States on January 2, 2022

What else to say but that this is the BEST book I've ever read, and I've read a LOT of great, classic and wonderful books in my almost 70 years on this blue planet. I've read this amazing book multitudes of times over the past years, and I learn something new each time. This true story is brilliantly written with an eye to compassion and truth, a compilation of history, observation, research, investigation and critical thinking, with a soothing dose of respect and admiration not only for those 13 young Smokejumpers who lost their race with a wildfire in Mann Gulch on August 5, 1949, but also for others who were in some way deeply and personally touched by the tragic loss of life, those who were affected by this tragedy for the remainder of their days, whether a few years or a few decades. The prose used by the late, great Norman Maclean is wonderfully touching and deeply soulful, his words are like a massage to my heart and mind as I read them ... it's actually hard to properly describe. I knew almost nothing about Smokejumpers and little of the USFS before reading this book, but now I'm fascinated by the Mann Gulch tragedy in particular and by the courage and selflessness shown by Smokejumpers, and as well by the training of- and abilities shown by- those in the USFS involved with protecting our beautiful forests and wildlands from destruction by wildfires.

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John R. Meyers

you’re in for a flaming disappointment

Reviewed in the United States on November 20, 2020

I suspect that MacLean had one awesome book in him—A River Runs Through It—and we’re blessed that he wrote it. But THIS book is an entirely different matter. It sucks. Painful, pointless, boring, self-absorbed. The occasional glimpses of life a couple of generations ago are delightful, but they are squished between long, agonizing, rattling passages of nonsense. I wanted to set myself on fire.

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Aaron M.

A brilliant, though unfinished, work encompassing decades of research

Reviewed in the United States on July 5, 2011

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It is a great thing that this book has been given to the world, considering how much of his life and energy Norman Maclean devoted to it. A shame, also, that he wasn't able to finish it himself. I wonder how much additional polish and editing he would have done to make it a spectacular read.

In "Young Men and Fire" Maclean takes the reader to the disastrous Mann Gulch blowup and examines it through testimony of the survivors, all of the photographs and documents that exist, personal interviews and visits to the scene, and modern computer analysis of fire behavior. Along the way he also looks at the ramifications of the events from grief and lawsuits to it's importance in the history of the forest service and the development of fire science as a whole. The book is *also* his personal story...a quest to gather all of the information, expose it with as much truth and perspective as possible, and finally bring closure to questions and controversy that were never completely dealt with.

Accomplishing all of this is a lot to do in one work, of course, especially when it's unfolding simultaneously. Because of this it can seem like Maclean is jumping around and repeating himself a lot. Also, he likes to wax poetic (literally) quite a bit about the nature of life and death, fire, youth, and old age (his own). He links these and poetic thoughts to the story often...which is sometimes beautifully poignant but other times fairly jarring as it comes in the midst of technical examination of facts and theories. The last chapter, for example, as he tries to sum up everything into something meaningful for all of humanity...I found pretty unreadable for about 5 pages. It was just over the top with soliloquies and poetic ramblings. But then it returns in clarity and again offers well formed thoughts that romanticize all of it quite nicely.

Another challenge I encountered (which seems rather trivial but was quite annoying) is that for much of the book I had a hard time picturing what Mann Gulch and the physical locations where the fire and the deaths occurred looked like. The terms used may be familiar to Maclean and those he referred to as "experienced woodsmen" but for me they were obscure. Ridge, reef, sidehill, gulch, fingergulch, canyon, mouth of the gulch, upgulch, upslope, crevice, saddle. Coming across the maps and photographs included helped some, but unfortunately they were poorly reproduced in the Kindle version I purchased. As Maclean attempted to recreate the events with timelines, yardage, speed, and space he included references to points on the map, for example. Too bad for me these were impossible to see on the poor quality jpegs in my version. It's a shame the publisher didn't do a better job on the ebook. Formatting errors were also found in abundance.

If I were unbiased I would have to rate the book on it's own 3/5 stars. It's very hard to be unbiased, though, after going along on the journey with him and knowing it is essentially 15+ years of his hard work and possibly his greatest passion. All in all it definitely accomplishes what it attempts to do and I imagine the need to rework and polish the book into something more digestible (publishable) is what prevented him from doing so. I think if he had had time and ability it could have been polished to an easy 4-5 star creation...a classic, a bestseller. It has the content and legworth to deserve that, I think. Because of this I'm rating it 4 stars.

After reading it I will never see some things the same. A fire danger rating, for example. A short news blurb that firefighters got a grass fire in steep terrain contained. The very real risk of wildland fires and amazing power of nature. The fascinating nature of fire science and computer modeling. The terror of being unable to outrun a 30-40 foot wall of flame. Beyond the occasional tedium I am glad I read this book and would highly recommend it.

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Kyle L. Rhynerson

Gems of wisdom buried in the details

Reviewed in the United States on July 26, 2011

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"Young Men and Fire" was a good read, albeit one that was hard for me at times due to the immense amount of details regarding the Mann Gulch fire that took place in 1949 and killed 13 Smokejumpers. As Maclean wrote, "When it comes to racing with death, all men are not created equal." The race was an estimated 1,400 yards and lasted about 16 minutes. Three quarters of a mile doesn't sound that far to run until you factor in the steep terrain, hot weather, and a raging forest fire rapidly gaining on you!

This story was a fascinating look at the events surrounding the fire, and how 3 men managed to surive while 13 others died. At times, I found myself drawn into the store eagerly turning pages, and then I would get bogged down in all the analytical details. This is what slowed my reading down such that I would stop and read something else when I got bored.

I pushed through those slow sections, and I'm glad I did because I think Maclean buried some real gems of wisdom regarding death and catastrophes in this book. I also think it served a noble purpose in revealing the truth on the Mann Gulch Fire, and helping the Forestry Service learn from this tragic event.

I once heard that safety rules are written in other people's blood, and this is true for the Smokejumpers. The rules that came out from this event seem to be working because Maclean noted, "...in the nearly fourty years since the Mann Gulch tragedy no Smokeumper has died on a fire-line." That is a great testament to the lessons learned, and shows those young men didn't die in vain.

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AnnT

Researching the deadly Mann Gulch fire

Reviewed in the United States on October 28, 2021

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McKean spends years researching how lives of smokejumpers were lost in the Mann Gulch fire of 1910.Fire science was in its infancy in 1910. Lessons of fire science were extracted from this fire that help improve safety of those who parachute to fight forest fires.

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Brady

Good (ish)

Reviewed in the United States on August 14, 2013

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If you like the AMAZING narrative by Norman Maclean, you'll like reading this book. His classical language you've heard in 'A River Runs Though It' is very prevelant.

I haven't finished though. The book is about one incident, and I got bored once the entire story was told. I really do love Maclean's writing, but what's to say about an event that happened in less than 24 hours? In a language like the authors: I ended my reading, feeling like perhaps the story doesn't end, and goes on as ghosts that move and dance amongst this world; afraid to proceed away from a comfortable limbo.

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lindapanzo

fascinating book in need of some polishing

Reviewed in the United States on September 4, 2013

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Forest fires were expected to be put out by 10 o'clock in the morning after Smoke Jumpers are dropped on them. Alas, in the Mann Gulch fire of August, 1949, this wasn't possible as most of the Smoke Jumpers were dead within hours of being dropped on site.

With his forestry background, the author combined knowledge of the subject and his ability to write beautifully to create a disaster book masterpiece. He excelled, especially, at telling the story of the fire and also telling the "what changed as a result." The lengthy middle section of the book--his attempt to track down information--seemed unfinished. This is not surprising because his search for answers and his writing of this book were ongoing at the time of his death, before this book was completed.

There's some truly memorable writing here. For instance, from the final portion: "From the elevation of retrospect we can see it all coming together more clearly and sooner than those who were there and running. For us the signs are many that in minutes the blowup would bring a total convergence of sky, young men, and fire, and after that, the dark; on the top of the hill, though there are only occasional partings in the smoke, the flames themselves were blinding and those inside the flames and smoke could no longer see what was happening to them and would happen next."

I loved, too, how the author managed to suggest what the dying Smoke Jumpers may have felt. He does so in a beautiful, reassuring way.

Due to the fact that the foreman built an escape fire at the last minute, something that hadn't been done before, this fire remains controversial, a mystery. Did the escape fire contribute to the deaths of some of the Smoke Jumpers or could it have saved them? Perhaps if the author could've finished this book before he'd died, we might have a better answer.

This is a truly fascinating book, in need of some polishing, but unforgettable nonetheless. Very highly recommended!!

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John Matel

Not just about young men and fire

Reviewed in the United States on February 7, 2017

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Book Review: Young Men and Fire: A True Story of the Mann Gulch Fire

This is a multidimensional story. It is the story of the sixteen-man that in 1949 fought a wildfire at Mann Gulch, Montana and of the thirteen who died there. It is also the story of an on-the-spot innovation, subsequently made famous by studies of quick thinking when crew leader Wag Dodge saved himself from the fire by lighting another, burning the fuel and then sheltering in the burned out are have the problem of organizational behavior and small-unit cohesion among a group and a leader unaccustomed to working with the team. There is the story of fire-science that was greatly stimulated by the events at Mann Gulch. We could talk about the investigation of inc and court cases resulting or about the investigation, much of it never to-be-resolved, finished as much as it ever will be by the author almost forty years after the event, with the fi report cut short by the death of the author himself.

So, I recommend this book for if you are interested in any of the above subjects, or if you just want an excitin or are attracted by the forces of nature. Since I cannot cover all the details, I will go after those most related interest and experience. I bought this book as part of my study of the ecological use of fire and “Young Men and Fire” is a classic for fire science. But I first became aware of the book when studying innovation and organizational behavior, so I will talk about those things.

My study has concerned mostly prescribed burning in Southeastern pine forests, but I have also looked into ponderosa pine in the West and in tallgrass prairie ecosystems. The ecology in Mann Gulch included grassland brush along with ponderosa pine and Douglas fir. This was no prescribed or controlled fire.

Maclean sets the stage very well. He describes the young smoke jumpers, their attributes and attitudes. The were fit young men whose mission was to parachute ahead of fires and put them out before they got too big. Consider that in 1949, not long after World War II, the parachute was still a relatively new technology. Paratroopers had been heroes of the War and this was no doubt not lost on the young smoke jumpers, who s themselves in military terms, fighting fires as they would any other enemy. They knew that their task was dangerous, but they had the confidence of fit young men who had not seen failure. An important flaw in this organization, and one that may have been fatal, was that smoke jumping crews were assembled from a list of volunteers at each need. They were not a team used to working together. And their leader, Wag Dodge, although experienced in the woods and with fire fighting, did not know them well. Humans are not interchangeable p When the crisis breaks and they need to rely on quick thinking or training, it is important that the team think a time. The men in Mann Gulch did not.
It is also to think back to the mindset of the Forest Service at that time. This was before the science of ecology had developed, before fire behavior science had developed and before the idea the fire could be a natural and necessary part of the environment was even seriously considered. The Forest Service treated fire in the woo you would a fire in your living room. Put it out, they hoped before 10am. Lurking in the minds of all the ran was the memory of the Big Burn fire of 1910, which had burned more than three million acres and killed at least 78 fire fighters. (You can get a good background on that from “The Big Burn” on the “American Experience.)

The Mann Gulch fire behaved in particularly nasty ways for a variety of reasons. The topography was import The walls of the gulch channeled the wind and the rock faces created eddies, sort of mini-tornadoes of flame. Beyond that was the combination of timber and grass. A timber fire can get very hot but does not move very quickly. A grass fire is very rapid but not as hot, as the grass burns quickly and then goes out. Often only to the grass burns. The Mann Gulch fire combined the dangerous attributes of both, with the rapidly moving gr fire supported behind by the intense heat of the timber fire. It was hot enough to kill the firefighters and fast enough to outrun them.

The Mann Gulch became a blow up fire, which is a sudden increase in fire intensity or rate of spread accompanied by violent convection. The smoke jumpers just were not expecting this. The smoke jumper ethos was based the idea that they would be able to put out small fires before they became big ones. Their tools were simple. used shovels and simple tools to bury fire and beat it to death. These tools and methods are unsuited to a big which Mann Gulch became evidently in a matter of minutes. The firefighters have to stop fighting and get o the way of what they cannot stop. This was the problem; they could not get out the way fast enough.

The fire was coming fast because of the wind blowing up the gulch and from the wind created by the fire itself large fire creates its own wind. You can see that in a campfire or a fire in a fireplace. The fire draws in cool a heats it and pushes it out. The hot exhaust and gasses are what often kills. It burns lungs and suffocates. According to Maclean, it is ironically similar to drowning.

The fire also moved faster because it was going up hill. Fire burns up faster than it burns down. On the other hand, humans are slower running up hill. The young man did not have much of a chance to outrun the fire an this is were Wag Dodge has his idea. He no doubt understood the idea of a back-fire, i.e. a fire set in front of oncoming head fire designed to burn combustible material in advance of the big fire. Deprive it of fuel and it out. (This is one of the principles of conducting prescribed fires. Burners set a backfire to end the progress o head fire.) But nobody had used that principle to create an escape fire.

Dodge set a fire that burned the grass in front of the oncoming big fire and then laid on the ground in the ash and let the fire burn over him. He tried to get his fellow firefighters to join him, but they evidently (we can n know) did not understand or thought the idea was insane. Dodge survived and the principle of an escape fire entered the training manuals for fire fighters. BTW, the escape fire works in grass but not in timber fires. A timber fire burns slower but much hotter and longer.

I recommend the book, as I wrote above, but I do need to point out that the book is inconsistent through not of the author. Maclean died before the book was finished. His editors tried to do what they thought he would have done and they usually succeed, but there is a little too much step-by-step description of Maclean’s last v Mann Gulch. I suspect that these were first drafts or notes that Maclean would have tightened up.
“Young Men and Fire” has become classic in diverse fields of fire science, forestry and organizational behavior is also generally fun to read. One advantage of a “classic” is that it has been in print a long time. You can get book for one penny (plus shipping) on Amazon.

P.S. This fire and the crew involved has been studied in great detail. The story of Wag Dodge has become an example of innovation, while the problems of coordination have been studied by organizational theorists. Th a good online exploration of the ground Mann Gulch at this link.

P.S.S. – An added aspect of this tragedy is that it need not have happened at all. Researchers have talked ab the tactical problems of leaders, organization, geography, weather and bad luck. All these thing indeed came together in a kind of perfect storm. But there is a mega-issue. This fire did not need to be fought at all. Fire natural part of this ecosystem and there was nothing that needed to be saved in Mann Gulch. If you look at t photos of Mann Gulch today you are seeing the natural landscape. The fire was severe and deadly. It killed thirteen brave young men. But it did not destroy or even harm the long-term natural environment of the gulch. In fact, the natural environment today would have been worse had they succeeded in controlling that fire by as we the Forest Service standard of the time.

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Joseph Capecchi

A tragedy in prose

Reviewed in the United States on December 6, 2018

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Mann Gulch fire was a tragic event of nature consuming trees, grass and young men. This book examines the nature of the event both scientifically and philosophically. The minutia of the mathematics of wildfires at times is a bit tedious but the story of the young men and overriding, beautiful prosaic narrative gives insight into our nature

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Joshua Grant

Reads like a detective novel

Reviewed in the United States on November 15, 2006

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First, its important to note that the author did not complete this novel. Unfortunately, Maclean died prior to its completion, so others had to pull it all together for publishing. This perhaps lends to what I see as an "unpolished" quality, with some choppiness. That said, I felt it still merited four stars for what the author did. Maclean's research is extensive, and his conclusions are derived from numerous authoritative sources. It read like a mystery / detective novel for me, and I had trouble putting it down.

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Donna F. Tarver

Fascinating Study of Battling a Forest Fire

Reviewed in the United States on August 5, 2013

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Maclean who brought us A River Runs Through It writes a very interesting chronicle of a particular forest fire that includes the history of forestry and fire fighting, how fires evolve, and the psychology of the young men who choose this very dangerous pursuit. Having no interest in forest fires, I was skeptical of my friends recommendation of the book. I found it riveting!
Great Read!

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47Joe

Poetic

Reviewed in the United States on July 11, 2017

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Artful description of fire, life, tragedy, and making sense of it all. Useful for those that will create policy to understand how it will impact those it serves.

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