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Heretics of Dune

Heretics of Dune

byFrank Herbert
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Top positive review

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Bryan DesmondTop Contributor: Dragon Ball Z (TV Show)
5.0 out of 5 starsThe Lost Ones return...
Reviewed in the United States on July 2, 2020
Heretics of Dune is further proof that my fifteen year old self was not equipped with the receptivity that the latter Dune books require. Beyond the fact that I remembered very little of it, reading it now is an entirely different, and far more rewarding, experience. For many years I fed off the collective opinion of these latter books, as well as my earlier reading of it, and decided they may not be worth the time. I halted my every whim to return to them. This was a mistake. No, Heretics is not Dune. It's not Dune: Messiah. It's not even God Emperor, but it is one hell of a science-fiction novel. And for mega fans of the series (I will admit to being such) it is more than worthwhile.

Heretics takes place some 1,500 years after the brunt of what we read in God Emperor of Dune, and right out of the gate Herbert hits you with a boatload of tantalizing worldbuilding. This is not the universe we knew when Leto ruled, though his shadow hangs over it still... Lost Ones have begun returning from The Scattering of humankind. With this unknown factor of evolution yet to play their cards, the other forces of the universe are on edge. The Tleilaxu here feature their most prominent role in the series thus far, and we take a much deeper look at the Bene Gesserit Sisterhood (especially as they compare to the new thread of the Honored Matres). We round out our main story bits with Miles Teg, the Sisterhood's most reliable weapon, a fresh Duncan Idaho ghola, and Sheeana, a young girl on Rakis with the ability to control the sandworm Shai-hulud (or is it Shaitan...?).

In true Frank Herbert fashion, the plot is dense and full of complexities that leave me desiring to start from the beginning as soon as I finish. There is always a feeling of more lying just beneath the surface; a feeling I love. He remains a master at mixing a far-future setting with Eastern mysticism and metaphysical psychedelia. The result is perhaps one of the most believable science-fiction worlds out there, and I think this stems from how seriously Frank takes his work. It is amazing how much thought, how many hidden questions and subtle answers he is still injecting into this story.

The Dune universe has a depth and richness that marks Herbert's worldbuilding skills as matched by perhaps only Tolkien himself. The story of Arrakis and the peoples of its universe is one that is endlessly fascinating and complex. In a story that spans millennia, I think back on previous books with a sense of nostalgia bordering on awe; and experience the current story with the sense that there is always more to be revealed. Considering how much I enjoyed God Emperor and Heretics, I am very much looking forward to Chapterhouse after all these years.

--------------

"We are not looking at a new state of matter but at a newly recognized relationship between consciousness and matter, which provides a more penetrating insight into the workings of prescience. The oracle shapes a projected inner universe to produce new external probabilities out of forces that are not understood. There is no need to understand these forces before using them to shape the physical universe. Ancient metal workers had no need to understand the molecular and submolecular complexities of their steel, bronze, copper, gold, and tin. They invented mystical powers to describe the unknown while they continued to operate their forges and wield their hammers."
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11 people found this helpful

Top critical review

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Clay MacArthur
2.0 out of 5 starsBuyer Beware
Reviewed in the United States on August 25, 2020
I came into this book expecting, if not a true reform to the series original, a solid sci-fi book focussed on the specific skills and talents of the Bene Gesserit. In that reguard it totally delivered, but what I was not expecting was the heavy dose of sex in 2 or 3 locations.

In all honesty, I quite enjoyed the book and all of the cool and interesting interesting interactions that the Bene Gesserit hve withb other peoples (with special emphasis on the Thleilaxu (appologies for the abhorrent spelling)). There were moments were I laughed out loud with glee at the sheer audacity and brilliance with which the Bene Gesserit moved, and the incredulity with which their opponents responded, confirming the Bene Gesserit educated guess.

In addition there were multiple lore tidbits that really helped to flesh out the world, especially a post-Leto one. The entire idea of a scattering is incredibly exciting and novel, and same with an Anti-Bene Gesserit faction coming out of this same scattering, and coutless other nuances that really made the world so exciting to explore and learn more about. But this is all, in my opinion brought down by the sex.

Now, in past books in the Dune series sex, while never avoided (spice orgies, the baron Harkonnen, and some parts of the god emperor come to mind), was never also included in such detail that it seems that Frank Herbert
went out of his way to include such scenes. <spoilers>Specifically in one part of the book the Bene Thleilax show a demonstration of the Honored Matres' sexual techniques and about 2 chapters later that same technique is explained twice in excrutiating, and frankly disgusting detail.</spolers>

Personally, I don't think that much would have been lost if say one of the bystanders had described the event (and yes, there were two bystanders watching the whole time) and then had one of the characters recount their experience afterwords (becausse there was some plot in the middle). Honestly, I stopped reading right there because of the nasty imagery described.

For some people they may enjoy such imagery as that, and in addition it probably wasn't as bad as I described, but every person must mae their own descisions, and I personally would not recomend it to anyone uncomfortable or unknowledgeable about sex.

Overall, a great book with some greater problems.
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15 people found this helpful

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From the United States

Clay MacArthur
2.0 out of 5 stars Buyer Beware
Reviewed in the United States on August 25, 2020
Verified Purchase
I came into this book expecting, if not a true reform to the series original, a solid sci-fi book focussed on the specific skills and talents of the Bene Gesserit. In that reguard it totally delivered, but what I was not expecting was the heavy dose of sex in 2 or 3 locations.

In all honesty, I quite enjoyed the book and all of the cool and interesting interesting interactions that the Bene Gesserit hve withb other peoples (with special emphasis on the Thleilaxu (appologies for the abhorrent spelling)). There were moments were I laughed out loud with glee at the sheer audacity and brilliance with which the Bene Gesserit moved, and the incredulity with which their opponents responded, confirming the Bene Gesserit educated guess.

In addition there were multiple lore tidbits that really helped to flesh out the world, especially a post-Leto one. The entire idea of a scattering is incredibly exciting and novel, and same with an Anti-Bene Gesserit faction coming out of this same scattering, and coutless other nuances that really made the world so exciting to explore and learn more about. But this is all, in my opinion brought down by the sex.

Now, in past books in the Dune series sex, while never avoided (spice orgies, the baron Harkonnen, and some parts of the god emperor come to mind), was never also included in such detail that it seems that Frank Herbert
went out of his way to include such scenes. <spoilers>Specifically in one part of the book the Bene Thleilax show a demonstration of the Honored Matres' sexual techniques and about 2 chapters later that same technique is explained twice in excrutiating, and frankly disgusting detail.</spolers>

Personally, I don't think that much would have been lost if say one of the bystanders had described the event (and yes, there were two bystanders watching the whole time) and then had one of the characters recount their experience afterwords (becausse there was some plot in the middle). Honestly, I stopped reading right there because of the nasty imagery described.

For some people they may enjoy such imagery as that, and in addition it probably wasn't as bad as I described, but every person must mae their own descisions, and I personally would not recomend it to anyone uncomfortable or unknowledgeable about sex.

Overall, a great book with some greater problems.
15 people found this helpful
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Bryan DesmondTop Contributor: Dragon Ball Z (TV Show)
5.0 out of 5 stars The Lost Ones return...
Reviewed in the United States on July 2, 2020
Verified Purchase
Heretics of Dune is further proof that my fifteen year old self was not equipped with the receptivity that the latter Dune books require. Beyond the fact that I remembered very little of it, reading it now is an entirely different, and far more rewarding, experience. For many years I fed off the collective opinion of these latter books, as well as my earlier reading of it, and decided they may not be worth the time. I halted my every whim to return to them. This was a mistake. No, Heretics is not Dune. It's not Dune: Messiah. It's not even God Emperor, but it is one hell of a science-fiction novel. And for mega fans of the series (I will admit to being such) it is more than worthwhile.

Heretics takes place some 1,500 years after the brunt of what we read in God Emperor of Dune, and right out of the gate Herbert hits you with a boatload of tantalizing worldbuilding. This is not the universe we knew when Leto ruled, though his shadow hangs over it still... Lost Ones have begun returning from The Scattering of humankind. With this unknown factor of evolution yet to play their cards, the other forces of the universe are on edge. The Tleilaxu here feature their most prominent role in the series thus far, and we take a much deeper look at the Bene Gesserit Sisterhood (especially as they compare to the new thread of the Honored Matres). We round out our main story bits with Miles Teg, the Sisterhood's most reliable weapon, a fresh Duncan Idaho ghola, and Sheeana, a young girl on Rakis with the ability to control the sandworm Shai-hulud (or is it Shaitan...?).

In true Frank Herbert fashion, the plot is dense and full of complexities that leave me desiring to start from the beginning as soon as I finish. There is always a feeling of more lying just beneath the surface; a feeling I love. He remains a master at mixing a far-future setting with Eastern mysticism and metaphysical psychedelia. The result is perhaps one of the most believable science-fiction worlds out there, and I think this stems from how seriously Frank takes his work. It is amazing how much thought, how many hidden questions and subtle answers he is still injecting into this story.

The Dune universe has a depth and richness that marks Herbert's worldbuilding skills as matched by perhaps only Tolkien himself. The story of Arrakis and the peoples of its universe is one that is endlessly fascinating and complex. In a story that spans millennia, I think back on previous books with a sense of nostalgia bordering on awe; and experience the current story with the sense that there is always more to be revealed. Considering how much I enjoyed God Emperor and Heretics, I am very much looking forward to Chapterhouse after all these years.

--------------

"We are not looking at a new state of matter but at a newly recognized relationship between consciousness and matter, which provides a more penetrating insight into the workings of prescience. The oracle shapes a projected inner universe to produce new external probabilities out of forces that are not understood. There is no need to understand these forces before using them to shape the physical universe. Ancient metal workers had no need to understand the molecular and submolecular complexities of their steel, bronze, copper, gold, and tin. They invented mystical powers to describe the unknown while they continued to operate their forges and wield their hammers."
11 people found this helpful
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J. Walker
3.0 out of 5 stars Not the best at all. After God Emperor I don't get this book being so damn boring in comparison.
Reviewed in the United States on June 15, 2018
Verified Purchase
I'm really very disappointing to the point of being angry. I felt tugged between extreme boredom and some very very well written moments between characters. I grew very impatient with the back and fourth in every chapter and then getting into it only to have the story fizz out like a balloon with no pop. Pissed me the hell off honestly. I'm reading the sample of Chapter house to see if I can get over this and read the last of the Herbert books before his son took over. God Emperor Dune was such a perfect and genius piece of science fiction. It resonated with me for years. To go from that to this is utterly frustrating. Maybe if they had published both Chapter House and Heretics in one I might have had less to moan about. We shall see how Chapter house goes.
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Timberfire
5.0 out of 5 stars Interesting
Reviewed in the United States on February 13, 2021
Verified Purchase
Frank Herbert is one of a kind in his writing of the Dune Saga. Each novel is almost a separate tale of interesting snippets into his universe. I loved this book and also quite perplexed by it as well. It gives a much needed expansion of the Sisterhood as a society and doesn't as well keeping the mystery for the next book. Stick this one out and re-read it. It is so intricate you might miss something.
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Ron Penn
5.0 out of 5 stars Book four in this awesome series
Reviewed in the United States on December 21, 2014
Verified Purchase
This is book five in the Dune series. It takes place a few millennia after the events in book four. This book is more action based than the previous one. Dune now called Rakis, it has returned to being a desert planet due to the re-emergence of the sandtrout, an organism critical to the development of sandworms, because Dune's most famous lifeform is no longer extinct, the return of the all-important spice to the planet.

The empire fell into chaos before the return of the sandworms, due to the scarcity of spice. This created the "Scattering" in which much of the population sought the extreme edges of the universe to find other sources of spice or to expand the location of humanity. As the book opens, many people have returned but the exodus had changed them. There is also a new force to deal with in the guise of the Honored Matres. They are very similar to the Bene Gesserit but the Matres use sex as a weapon and force of rule.

Duncan Idaho was the swordmaster of Duke Leto centuries earlier. As if raising him from the dead, the Bene Gesserit have been using gholas, or clones, of Duncan through the years. But the Tleilaxu, a race which creates gholas, have always assassinated the Duncan Idaho gholas before they reach full adulthood. However,the Bene Gesserit now have an elaborate plan in place to protect the most recent reincarnation of their ghola.

In the meantime, on Rakis, a child is discovered by the priests that can control the sandworms. The Bene Gesserit hear of this and immediately take over Rakis in the hopes of controlling the young girl. The Honored Matres also find this out and seek to destroy the ghola and the girl and Rakis. Needless to say, this is the setup for battles to be fought and destinies to be determined. Many entangled plots resolve into an outcome that makes this book yet another great adventure in the Duneverse created by Frank Herbert.
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Picky Customer
1.0 out of 5 stars Seriously, don't bother.
Reviewed in the United States on September 25, 2021
Verified Purchase
There is an old internet joke: A book cover of DUNE, photoshopped to read, "Just Stop Here, You'll Be Better Off."
Well...I broke down and read all six of the books written by Herbert...and the joke is true.
Seriously, don't bother.
NOTE: The first novel, DUNE, *very much deserves* its standing as a true classic of science fiction. Everyone should read DUNE.
But I seriously regret spending the money and time on the following five novels.
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John Smith
3.0 out of 5 stars This one is a mixed bag (contains massive spoilers)
Reviewed in the United States on November 16, 2014
Verified Purchase
This is unfortunately the weakest entry into the Dune series up to this point. I have no idea how good or bad Chapterhouse Dune is going to be since I have only read the first couple chapters just now, and based on what I heard about the entries that his son wrote (both the quality of writing and how the content there doesn't even mesh at all with the universe Frank Herbert created), I will not be reading those no matter how bad of a cliffhanger Chapterhouse Dune ends on. There is no shame in being the weakest entry in a series like Dune, though, given what it's up against. I absolutely loved the first three Dune books and I can't think of anything bad to say about them. You could argue that God Emperor of Dune is a bit bloated and maybe it focuses way more on the philosophical aspects of Dune than it does on it's plot, but I still enjoyed the book and I never found it tedious or boring at any point and I would recommend anyone read it.

So what about Heretics of Dune?

Well, lets first start with the positives. Once again, it is beautifully written and the characters are compelling. Odrade is easily my favorite out of this book and I've enjoyed every chapter that she was in and I enjoyed her interactions with Sheeana and Sheeana herself was a great character as well and I would also say that all of her chapters were just as enjoyable. The Duncan Idaho ghola easily comes in at third. I didn't think Teg was as interesting as other people seem to think but he wasn't a bad character at all. His interactions with Duncan Idaho make him a lot more interesting and really help to elevate him above the archetype of the retired veteran forced back into active duty. The plot is interesting once it actually starts up...

But then that brings us to the negatives, which would mainly be the beginning and ending of this book. I'll lay it out here without spoilers first. Basically, the first 130 pages is a choppy mess of exposition, info-dumps, and character background. The previous books always did a much better job with this, so I'm not really sure what the problem was here. And then the ending was just a choppy mess. Had the beginning been trimmed and edited a little, and had the ending been expanded upon, this would have been a much better book.

I can't get into my problems in detail with the ending without spoilers, so if you haven't read at least the first five Dune books, skip this paragraph. You have been warned. So anyway, onward with spoilers. Basically, in the last few chapters, Teg gathers all of his old war buddies together and they agree to help him and he says he needs to steal a no-ship. And in the next chapter he has that no-ship and he is with Lucilla and Duncan and they're heading back to Arrakis. It would've been nice to have gotten a chapter of them stealing that no-ship, and then we get another chapter where he reunites with Lucilla and Duncan. I mean, okay, I get that the book was maybe getting a bit too long and everything and maybe it was felt that how he got the no-ship wasn't nearly as interesting as what came after, and...I guess that's fine if Frank Herbert felt that way. But that's not even the worst of it. The worst is that Arrakis gets destroyed and it felt so abrupt to me and we didn't even get to see it. He just goes to Arrakis, gets the worm, gathers Sheeana and Odrade, and they leave and the next chapter Arrakis is destroyed. It would've been like if in God Emperor of Dune, we didn't get to see Leto II die, but instead just had the last chapter of Siona telling everyone that through an assassination attempt, Leto II fell into a river and melted in there. Paul Attreides/The Preacher was the most important character in this whole series, and in book 3, he may not have gotten the best death scene ever written in any book, but at least we got to see it happen. But nope, Arrakis just blows up off screen and Teg stays behind while it blows up. He's not the best character in the Dune series, but he was still important in this book and I still liked him and would have wanted to see his death. Given that most of this series is told from an omniscient point of view, giving him a chapter where we see his epic sacrifice would have been easy. In the first Dune we even got a chapter of Liet Kynes dying in the desert and arguing with a hallucination of his father. So what's the problem here?

So is Heretics of Dune worth reading or should you stop at God Emperor of Dune, since you get closure with God Emperor and you don't get it at all with the subsequent books? That's a tough call to make. A lot of this book does seem like buildup to the next installment, so whether it's worth reading (and whether I'd read it again if I ever revisit the Dune books) is going to depend heavily on how good the content of Chapterhouse Dune is despite the lack of any resolution.

Lastly, this review is based on the Kindle version, as I own all 6 Dune books on my Kindle. I had no issues with the formatting of any of the Dune books the way other people seem to have. The excerpts at the beginning of the chapters were formatted best in Dune and God Emperor of Dune, but the excerpts are in a serviceable format in the other 4 books. My only complaint would be that Children of Dune forces a smaller font, at least it did for me, and I don't know why. And the first Dune book, you have no way of determining how long the chapter is before you read it (and the page numbering for it is probably messed up too). But aside from those issues, if you own a Kindle and you want to read these books on it, I'd say go for it.
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Warren R.
5.0 out of 5 stars Don't give up after God Emperor!!
Reviewed in the United States on December 27, 2016
Verified Purchase
After the monotony of God Emperor of Dune, I'm actually surprised I decided to pick up this book. And I am so happy I did. By far the best Dune book since the first, and I have to say the most action in any of the series (I haven't finished Chapterhouse: Dune yet however). In classic Frank Herbert fashion, the characters are developed in so many layers, yet still surprise you in the end. Heretics of Dune combines the great sci-fi action from Dune with the insightful political and philosophical commentary from the rest of the series into a marvelous novel that will get you excited about Dune again.
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Travis Stein
5.0 out of 5 stars Fantastic sci-fi from Herbert yet again!
Reviewed in the United States on August 7, 2008
Verified Purchase
In Heretics of Dune, nearly 1500 years have past since Leto II's (The God Emperor) reign ended. Humanity is finally on the Golden Path that Leto II sacrificed so much for with most importantly, his humanity. Shortly after Leto II's death, his tyrannical reign began to weaken and a great many of humanity went out into the Scattering in search of populating several other planets and spreading humanity out as far as humanely possible. However, not all of those in the Scattering were grateful for what Leto II did and are now coming back bent on conquering much of the galaxy that was in place in Leto's time. Major players in this book include the Bene Gesserit, Bene Tleilaxu, a new Duncan ghola, and Miles Teg.

The Bene Gesserit are the only ones that still adhere to Leto II's Golden Path for humanity. They are also faced with a rather interesting choice, do they continue to manipulate humanity and continue their breeding programs? Or do they help humanity to grow and spread outward in a future where humanity will not face certain extinction? Throughout the series, I was never a big fan of the Bene Gesserit. Yet they are major players in this book and as the reader will see towards the end, they do make the right decisions for humanity and somewhat atone for their manipulative past.

A great deal of this book centers around the formerly retired military hero, Bashar Miles Teg. He is called into service once again for a very important assignment - the training of a new Duncan Idaho ghola, this time from childhood. The catch? There is something very different about this ghola that the Bene Tleilaxu have modified him with and it is the job of the Bene Gesserit and Miles Teg to find out before it is too late. At first Miles Teg doesn't appear to be that central of a character and as others have said is every bit as fun and intriguing as Paul Atreides and Leto II were.

Of course, we cannot leave the Bene Tleilaxu out. After all of these years, they too wish to have their ascension to universal dominance that they have been waiting for so long for. The Bene Tleilaxu are lead by the dwarven-like Waff, their Tleilaxu master. It is his job to ensure that the Tleilaxu destroy the Sisterhood and at the very least gain a monopoly on melange, thus controlling the galaxies.

Many forces are at work throughout the book as the race to prepare the ghola for the Sisterhood's grand scheming clashes with enemies from the Scattering, the Sisterhood, and the mysterious Honored Matres (whorish versions of the Bene Gesserit corrupted by the scattering).

An exciting book from start to finish. I'm so glad I didn't give up on Dune for good 3 years ago. I've thoroughly thoroughly enjoyed this series and now it's onward to the final book! Chapterhouse Dune :)

-Travis
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Ritesh Laud
5.0 out of 5 stars great sci-fi
Reviewed in the United States on January 29, 2001
Verified Purchase
I'm currently reading Book 6 so Heretics is still fresh on my mind! I was initially disappointed that the story basically started fresh many centuries after Book 4, with only Leto II's lingering "Golden Path" still haunting the Bene Gesserit and no other characters present from that time except Duncan Idaho. BTW, this book and the next focus entirely on the Bene Gesserit.
After a couple chapters, however, I was hooked into the story and intrigued by the nature of the violently destructive Honored Matres returned from The Scattering. What are they after? I'm about halfway through Book 6 and that question still hasn't been answered. Duncan is a child for most of this novel, so the main male "hero" is the veteran general Miles Teg. There are a few Bene Gesserit protagonists, but since they're all so crafty and cunning it's hard to call them heroines. Let's just call them "the good side" while the Honored Matres are most definitely evil.
Herbert does a wonderful job endowing each Bene Gesserit with a unique personality yet also that infernal arrogance. There isn't a single Bene Gesserit that doesn't feel a sense of superiority to all non-sisters and complete control of almost any situation. Herbert chalks this attitude up to the countless memories of Other Lives and it is very believable.
An excellent read with an awesome ending. Several scenes of intense action and classic Herbert descriptions of combat and the "prana-bindu" reflexes. Go Miles!
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